Laying down as an OP factor

Posted by dk68 @dk68, Mar 21, 2023

So--67 y.o. male have been diagnosed with OP: -4.9 L4. No secondary causes, normal blood workup (-PTH, PO4 score), high Ca diet, supplements, exercised, etc. (awaiting meeting with endo). It is somewhat embarrassing to admit, but I work (write, read) on the couch (it's fancy and firm!). I definitely work sitting up. But, I always thought too much hunching over the desk was worse for the back. I have good core strength and stamina, and have done a moderate amount of resistance exercise (am increasing it), but could my history of working "weightlessly" account for these numbers? [I'm not lazy--I'm productive...] I am definitely upping my resistance and dietary game from what I assumed was healthy, but I am trying to figure how I got to this point. [The only research I have found was on patients who were bed-ridden.]

Interested in more discussions like this? Go to the Osteoporosis & Bone Health Support Group.

Hunching over wouldn't, I assume, have anything to do with bone density. Have you ever been on steroids? What are your other lumbar scores? I seem to remember the average was -4.4-?

With the -4.9 I think you might want to avoid resistance exercises, lifting, or certain movements until you see the doc or a PT. Check out the melioguide (margaret Martin) site for advice on exercise: https://melioguide.com/

You are probably at high fracture risk. I fractured three lumbar vertebrae with one unwise movement and I was in the mid -3's. You can find out what you can do safely. Also not all PT's are good with osteoporosis.

I hope you have a good endo because this is indeed a mystery. Let us know! ps tai chi is good, but not yoga!

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@windyshores

Hunching over wouldn't, I assume, have anything to do with bone density. Have you ever been on steroids? What are your other lumbar scores? I seem to remember the average was -4.4-?

With the -4.9 I think you might want to avoid resistance exercises, lifting, or certain movements until you see the doc or a PT. Check out the melioguide (margaret Martin) site for advice on exercise: https://melioguide.com/

You are probably at high fracture risk. I fractured three lumbar vertebrae with one unwise movement and I was in the mid -3's. You can find out what you can do safely. Also not all PT's are good with osteoporosis.

I hope you have a good endo because this is indeed a mystery. Let us know! ps tai chi is good, but not yoga!

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Dr. Loren Fishman, Columbia University School of Medicine, is a yoga practitioner and has a program of 12 poses which are currently being studied and have been shown to improve bone density for mostly all participants with no injuries. There are adaptive poses for those with osteoporosis and osteopenia as well. This program can be accessed via Google, "12 Poses vs Osteoporosis." Best to look at Dr. Fishman's presentation before viewing those of others as he explains the concepts. I've been doing them nearly daily for seven months and recently sent away for the DVD of his second series of 12 Poses.

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@tsc

Dr. Loren Fishman, Columbia University School of Medicine, is a yoga practitioner and has a program of 12 poses which are currently being studied and have been shown to improve bone density for mostly all participants with no injuries. There are adaptive poses for those with osteoporosis and osteopenia as well. This program can be accessed via Google, "12 Poses vs Osteoporosis." Best to look at Dr. Fishman's presentation before viewing those of others as he explains the concepts. I've been doing them nearly daily for seven months and recently sent away for the DVD of his second series of 12 Poses.

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Do you think that Dr Fishman's exercises have helped you significantly? And can you describe how? I do some of them but haven't been as as I would like to be. But the fact that you've been doing them now for 7 months suggest that you find them very helpful, which is encouraging me to start them again.

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@callalloo

Do you think that Dr Fishman's exercises have helped you significantly? And can you describe how? I do some of them but haven't been as as I would like to be. But the fact that you've been doing them now for 7 months suggest that you find them very helpful, which is encouraging me to start them again.

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Hi @callalloo, It's good to hear from you!
I'm hoping Dr. Fishman's yoga will help, as nearly everyone in the study gained bone density, with no injuries. I'll get a Dexascan this summer. I've fallen a couple of times over this period, but not been injured. Consistency is important. He advises doing the yoga everyday or every other day. In seven months, I've missed four days of practice.
I ordered the Second Series DVD a couple of months ago. It's good to have different poses for a change and some have been added for the wrist.
I am concerned about the DEXA scan though because I was diagnosed with PMR and GCA, autoimmune disorders from hell, and prescribed Prednisone, initially at a high dosage, and tapering down for 16 months = not good for the bones.
I like the Yoga because it's quick, over before I know it, and it replaced the high intensity vibration exerciser I was using. I also walk everyday about half an hour so with the yoga, I'm getting 50 minutes most days.
Hopefully, it will help.
Thank you for your inquiry. What have you been up to?

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There is this Yin/Yang of exercise with OP: the need to build strength (pushing the muscles) and doing it gentle enough not crunch, snap, or crack any of my bones. I'm taking it easy (lot of traipsing hills on long walks and some dumbbells and kettlebell, mat stuff, but nothing with a bar) until I get some coaching from a PT.

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@tsc

Hi @callalloo, It's good to hear from you!
I'm hoping Dr. Fishman's yoga will help, as nearly everyone in the study gained bone density, with no injuries. I'll get a Dexascan this summer. I've fallen a couple of times over this period, but not been injured. Consistency is important. He advises doing the yoga everyday or every other day. In seven months, I've missed four days of practice.
I ordered the Second Series DVD a couple of months ago. It's good to have different poses for a change and some have been added for the wrist.
I am concerned about the DEXA scan though because I was diagnosed with PMR and GCA, autoimmune disorders from hell, and prescribed Prednisone, initially at a high dosage, and tapering down for 16 months = not good for the bones.
I like the Yoga because it's quick, over before I know it, and it replaced the high intensity vibration exerciser I was using. I also walk everyday about half an hour so with the yoga, I'm getting 50 minutes most days.
Hopefully, it will help.
Thank you for your inquiry. What have you been up to?

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I was making good progress on both exercise and diet-improvement fronts then got off track a bit, lol. Luckily the 'off track' was just a bit and I continued making progress albeit at a slower rate. I like Dr. Fishman's yoga a lot so will get more serious about it. (I love standing on one leg for some reason! I think it's because it helps my lower back which has issues. Or I'm part flamingo?)

Have you looked into any of the technologies other than DEXA scan? I see my PCP at Cleveland Clinic in a few weeks and plan to ask him about them. I really want more information about bone health than just density measurements.

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@dk68

There is this Yin/Yang of exercise with OP: the need to build strength (pushing the muscles) and doing it gentle enough not crunch, snap, or crack any of my bones. I'm taking it easy (lot of traipsing hills on long walks and some dumbbells and kettlebell, mat stuff, but nothing with a bar) until I get some coaching from a PT.

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I think your approach is wise. There are a lot of areas of health where slow and steady wins the race. And minimizes the risk of doing any harm at the same time. Also it gives you time to understand your own body and pick up the signals from it if something seems amiss.

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@callalloo

I was making good progress on both exercise and diet-improvement fronts then got off track a bit, lol. Luckily the 'off track' was just a bit and I continued making progress albeit at a slower rate. I like Dr. Fishman's yoga a lot so will get more serious about it. (I love standing on one leg for some reason! I think it's because it helps my lower back which has issues. Or I'm part flamingo?)

Have you looked into any of the technologies other than DEXA scan? I see my PCP at Cleveland Clinic in a few weeks and plan to ask him about them. I really want more information about bone health than just density measurements.

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Fishman Yoga is getting a lot of plugs. My last experience with a yoga class was at least 40 years ago--only time I've ever had serious back problems as an adult! Probably a function of doing in a group--keeping up with the Joneses. [LOL on the Flamingo? Might help to have pink yoga pants.] Our lives stand in the Balance.

Other Scan-technologies. My GP was prescient to see me as a candidate for OP, but saw fit to send me on my way with an Rx for Alendronate. I await connecting with an endo and PT. There are places nearby that do the other scans--which I think would be prudent to have before serious PT. I would hate to find my tribecular areas of upper femur and vertebrae are especially vulnerable.

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@callalloo

I was making good progress on both exercise and diet-improvement fronts then got off track a bit, lol. Luckily the 'off track' was just a bit and I continued making progress albeit at a slower rate. I like Dr. Fishman's yoga a lot so will get more serious about it. (I love standing on one leg for some reason! I think it's because it helps my lower back which has issues. Or I'm part flamingo?)

Have you looked into any of the technologies other than DEXA scan? I see my PCP at Cleveland Clinic in a few weeks and plan to ask him about them. I really want more information about bone health than just density measurements.

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I would really like to get a TBS, but it's not available here. Nothing much is available here, but DEXA scan.

I'm caregiver to my husband who has Alzheimer's Disease and osteoporosis. He broke his hip last year when he fell over a box he didn't see left at our front door. We walk everyday. He doesn't have much tolerance for exercise - he'll do a bit, but yoga is kind of subtle. He doesn't get it. I can get him to do some other exercises though.

I sometimes walk around the house with one pound ankle weights.

I really like Dr. Fishman's Second Series (available on DVD). When you get tired of his first series, consider getting it. It's refreshing.

It's funny - here on Connect, we see the success stories of some, the setbacks of others. I've given up driving myself crazy, just want to be diligent and stay the course, for what it's worth.

Take care.

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@callalloo

I was making good progress on both exercise and diet-improvement fronts then got off track a bit, lol. Luckily the 'off track' was just a bit and I continued making progress albeit at a slower rate. I like Dr. Fishman's yoga a lot so will get more serious about it. (I love standing on one leg for some reason! I think it's because it helps my lower back which has issues. Or I'm part flamingo?)

Have you looked into any of the technologies other than DEXA scan? I see my PCP at Cleveland Clinic in a few weeks and plan to ask him about them. I really want more information about bone health than just density measurements.

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Hello Callalloo,
Please let us know what your doctor says about other testing.
Best of luck to you and everyone on this site.

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