Receiving blood from blood bank for lung cancer surgery

So you are telling me you look at your daughter and the long-term neurological effects she has from getting that shot and you say it is safe?

No - her long-term neuro effects are from a moderate case of the Covid virus, not the vaccine. She is an RN, and has had coworkers who became ill as she did working in the ER who have had to retire or change occupations due to their log-range effects. Some are still on 24 oxygen over a year later, and she lost quite a few young, healthy colleagues to the infection.

The vaccine is safer than getting infected, especially for those with underlying health issues that make severe Covid infection and dire outcomes far more likely. It is a risk-benefit decision.
Sue

Yes, it is a choice.

Time on a ventilator is pretty bad too, but death is somewhat worse!

@sueinmn thank you for your response. I appreciate your opinion. We all have our decision to make based on our lifestyles and beliefs. I can certainly understand you wanting to get vaccinated because of your high exposure risk since your children are in the medical field. Believe me I do listen to what qualified people have to say and because this is so controversial I am waiting. You have written, in a prior response, you could not understand why people are waiting. Well, this is the reason. It is hard to believe what the truth is. Perhaps you have a difficult time finding online information because of the search engine used. Many search engines have priorities as to what information people receive first. Remember, just because you have not heard it, it doesn’t mean the information or medical condition does not exist. Makes me wonder why online information such as videos from you tube get deleted. I can understand there may be some but these videos were from credible sources like physicians who had connections with other physicians for their information. By the way, I don’t insist their information is correct. I just take it all into account as with everything else regarding the vaccines and covid. It appears information has been mismanaged to benefit or mislead certain groups. Why the push for vaccines when they are experimental? Why would we do this to our young children when we do not know their health future? And how can it be said the vaccines are safe when all the facts are not known? I cannot make a decision not knowing both sides of the coin. What does safe exactly mean in this context? Does it mean it is safe to get now because we don’t know the possible effects in the future? I don’t like using fear tactics as a means for me to get vaccinated by posting the number of deaths. The numbers are all relative to the total population. The media won’t give that information. We heard in India many deaths but with the total population it puts the death numbers in perspective. You simply cannot only listen to the number of deaths. What happened to all those side effects reported to VAERS? Lots of time has lapsed from the beginning of the year when people started their reporting. Does it take this long for any mention? How can many reports be coincidental and not related to the vaccine? I can see some but many? It appears again for no negative response( not a word whether good or bad) in order to get more people vaccinated. I would think there would not be any hesitancy for positive findings.
A healthy individual may survive the coronavirus. What are the percentages of survivors of those infected with the disease? Yes, I understand there are after effects with the coronavirus but aren’t there side effects from the vaccines too? All to me is concerning especially when new technology is being introduced to produce the vaccines. For those who have comorbidities to increase their chances for death, they may benefit from the vaccine. It all depends on their lifestyle and exposure risk. Remember, the vaccines do not provide 100% no death. There have been reports of fully vaccinated individuals still being able to contract the virus and infect others. Of those some were hospitalized and some even died. With the deaths how are they measured? Is it deaths from the virus itself or deaths from the complications of other health issues? Understandably, people will have a different reaction when it comes to a medication. How about the fear of not knowing future medical issues with the vaccines? How can those medical issues(if any) be combated when no one can be held responsible? I certainly wouldn’t want to be a “guinea pig” again( the first time getting vaccinated) with a physician trying to resolve additional medical issues from the vaccine. When will it all end? Seems to be a vicious cycle when physicians can’t help. After all not much can be expected because the vaccines are experimental and the physicians are not accountable. Perhaps that is why some physicians don’t bother. They simply don’t know.

I guess we need to agree to disagree on this issue.

Every vaccine or other medical treatment has been new or experimental at one time, but since the Polio epidemic in the 1940's and '50's, none has been as widespread, contagious, had such dire health effects or caused such a change in the way of life as Covid-19.

There were no effective treatments known when this virus leapt into our country and turned life upside down. Our hospitals were overwhelmed, and the only tool for getting control was to shut down the country and expose our essential workers to high risk of serious illness.

There is no way to argue with the change in the scenario in the US today compared to a year ago, nor with the decline in infections, hospitalizations and deaths from the Covid virus and its variants since the distribution of vaccines began, even though we have returned to life as nearly-normal. And it is very difficult to dispute that the virus, including more dangerous variants, is spreading in areas with low vaccination rates, but not where more people have been vaccinated.

Yes, some people are experiencing side effects from the vaccine, but far fewer than from Covid. As for the argument of not knowing future effects of the vaccine, we are also still learning the future effects of having had the virus - and these are far more numerous.

As for your assertion "It is hard to believe what the truth is. Perhaps you have a difficult time finding online information because of the search engine used. Many search engines have priorities as to what information people receive first. Remember, just because you have not heard it, it doesn’t mean the information or medical condition does not exist. Makes me wonder why online information such as videos from you tube get deleted. I can understand there may be some but these videos were from credible sources like physicians who had connections with other physicians for their information."

- I do find and read many of those sources. Every time, without exception, that I have asked the author for actual, numerical data, I have received no reply, and in a few cases I have been blocked by them. That does not make me think reliable information is being reported.

- I closely look at data from sources considered "reliable" to make sure they are not comparing apples and oranges. If you want to see population-based data rather than raw numbers, you can look here; http://91-divoc.com/pages/covid-visualization/ Each graph or chart reports data based on /100,000 population so you can compare data between more/less populous areas accurately.

You asked "What happened to all those side effects reported to VAERS? Lots of time has lapsed from the beginning of the year when people started their reporting. Does it take this long for any mention? How can many reports be coincidental and not related to the vaccine? I can see some but many? It appears again for no negative response( not a word whether good or bad) in order to get more people vaccinated. I would think there would not be any hesitancy for positive findings."

- Every week, or more likely, every day, both positive and negative outcomes are being reported in the new, in information feeds like Mayo, CDC, WHO and many others.

- Adverse side effects are being studied worldwide to determine how often, how severe, and what can be done to improve. The University of Minnesota alone has 12 studies underway, multiplied nation and worldwide, this surely translates to thousands. Research-based studies take a year or more to produce reportable results.

- You can see the VAERS data for yourself using this search engine: https://vaers.hhs.gov/data.html When I search VAERS, I assume underreporting, because not every adverse effect gets reported and recorded. However, even if one assumes that the occurrence of side effects or deaths are 2, 3 or even 10 times more frequent than the data shows, the vaccines are far less dangerous than the infection.

I understand your fears, but the arguments don't stand up to the data.
Sue

@avmcbellar - Good morning. You have asked some very important questions. if you don't believe in science at all or that you don't trust any published information even on Connect then it will be difficult for us to answer your questions.

As Sue has said and what I have said, the COVID vaccines were available to the public on an emergency basis because so many people were dying. Scientists believed, based on past vaccines and the science that they already knew that worked, and trials that they had done, that they could help save people. And that has happened. Millions of people would have died had these vaccines not been made available on an emergency basis. That does not mean that the vaccines had no scientific validity. Based on previous trials from many, many years of covid type viruses scientists actually had a head-start. There had also been rDNA vaccines before this. But it wasn't until the trials when so many people were benefiting from the vaccines that showed how well they worked. Dr. Poland, has many times stated, that no vaccine has a 100% guarantee.

As far as statistics about the causes of deaths you will need to go to the CDC. https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/adverse-events.html

I can't answer if you will get the entire story that you are looking for as to what has caused more deaths. But I think that the bigger question is, has there been a positive result from these vaccines? Yes. Many millions of people have lived and survived as a result of these vaccines. Mayo Connect is fortunate to be affiliated with Mayo Clinic because of all of the experts at the Clinic, the doctors, and researchers. And aren't you on here because of this, at least in part?

I'm not so sure why you don't believe the science that has made vaccines possible. Certainly, politics has turned a lot of people off and has caused a lot of misinformation. But we aren't political on Connect. Our recommendations and information are science-based.

Sue and I are mentors for Mayo Connect. We have posted many many hours of explanations and data, shared our life experiences, and tried very hard to explain why you should be vaccinated. We can't answer questions about the future. Please remember that the vaccines had a lot of history behind them so that they could be distributed sooner than anyone expected. And I say, thank goodness for that! No one experimented in their garage and had an ah, ha moment. There were hundreds of years of scientific history behind coming up with the vaccines. There have been many vaccines that were issued with a lot less known science behind them. And some were very successful.

As mentors, we try and keep people safe with tips from our own experiences and others. We share what we believe and trust is sound science from experts. This is what we can offer you. Right now most people who are dying from the Delta variant are people who have not been vaccinated. I still suggest that you get vaccinated and encourage others to so because the Delta variant is a hundred times more contagious and deadly than what we have seen in the past.

I know that a lot of your questions were venting at all of the frustrations that a lot of us feel. But science is science no matter if you agree or not and the virus and its deadly variants will continue to kill people who aren't vaccinated.

@merpreb I appreciate your response. On the contrary, I do believe in science provided there is legitimate proof. Let’s be serious and not naive. It all comes down to the wording. I see it in TV commercials to mislead consumers. Does history not show any data skewed in order for it to become believable? I try to ask the right questions to avoid ambiguity. Have you looked at other countries for instance Israel, where the majority of their population got vaccinated? Just something to think about when the covid cases are rising. I know no vaccine is 100% effective. It all depends on lifestyle and exposure risk. If an individual has comorbidities and a high exposure rate then perhaps they should consider the vaccine for protection. Yes, people have died but also people survived. I don’t know what your definition is of “many” in relation to the population e.g. 100,000 may seem many but out of 1 billion it really is not much. Sadly, those who died after contracting the virus may have had other health issues. It may be the case of the fittest surviving. I don’t know. I certainly don’t want to see anyone die due to an illness but yet it seems deaths from those who were vaccinated got swept under the rug. It is enough to make anyone consider their risks. What is worse is having to live with the side effects of either the vaccines or covid 19 day by day. Since no one really knows the answers, we have to decide for ourselves what we are willing to tolerate. I don’t take health threats lightly but yet I am being cautious. There is nothing wrong with being cautious. It doesn’t mean I am a non believer in science. I don’t want to be naive either. After all I have received degrees based on science and have gained more knowledge through my work experiences through the years. This is the basis for my beliefs which have led me to become cautious. I believe many of us at Mayo Clinic come together to help each other through our expertise gained through our knowledge and education. I listen to other members carefully because everyone brings important information to the forum.
You say your information is science based. I believe you but do you have all the science? Again, it may be misleading to present part of the picture which is my concern and that is why the wait. I understand nothing is written in stone. If the data was so fine with the vaccines why were they not approved if they were used long before? Why are vaccinated individuals part of an experiment? Makes anyone wonder. In the past I had enough sense to go against products or medications others told me were safe. Why do we discover now after many years they cause harm? I think being cautious can prevent health problems down the road.

@merpreb I am sorry to add a few more comments to your remarks. You talk about the delta variant. I agree it is more contagious and we should be more careful. Are you saying that only the non vaccinated are being infected with this variant? I don’t believe so. The reason for the variants is for the survival of the virus. Since it has become more difficult for the virus to perform it becomes tougher i.e. it develops a harsher strain. You may ask why does the virus need to develop another strain? Simply because the vaccine makes it harder for the virus. I believe it will be a matter of time before the virus figures things out where the vaccines won’t protect against a particular strain. Don’t forget the delta variant is transmissible in both vaccinated and non vaccinated individuals. A virus is never wiped out. We hear it all the time with virus cases coming back.

Hi all, Thank you for this debate. As per our community guidelines: https://connect.mayoclinic.org/blog/about-connect/tab/community-guidelines/
"Exercise tolerance and respect toward other participants whose views may differ from your own. Disagreements are fine, but mutual respect is a must."

Regarding blood from COVID vaccinated donors.
Blood from vaccinated donors is safe for patients. With COVID-19 vaccines, the mRNA or viral-vector vaccine is broken down quickly once it enters the body’s cells and there is no evidence that transfused blood collected from donors who were previously vaccinated with COVID-19 vaccine poses any harm to patients.

From the Red Cross website:
"The Red Cross is following FDA blood donation eligibility guidance for those who receive the COVID-19 vaccination. Deferral times for donations may vary depending on which brand of vaccine you received. If you’ve received a COVID-19 vaccine, you’ll need to provide the manufacturer name when you come to donate. In most cases, there is no deferral time for individuals who received a COVID-19 vaccine as long as they are symptom-free and feeling well at the time of donation.

The following eligibility guidelines apply to each COVID-19 vaccine received, including boosters:
- There is no deferral time for eligible blood donors who are vaccinated with a non-replicating inactivated or RNA-based COVID-19 vaccine manufactured by AstraZeneca, Janssen/J&J, Moderna, Novavax, or Pfizer.
- Eligible blood donors who received a live attenuated COVID-19 vaccine or do not know what type of COVID-19 vaccine they received must wait two weeks before giving blood."
Read more here: https://www.redcrossblood.org/local-homepage/news/article/covid-19-vaccination-guide-blood-donation.html

Regarding COVID information
COVID is new and the science is constantly being updated as researchers' investigations, patient reports, and medical professional experiences illuminate with more evidence. It can be challenging to know what is current evidence-based information, misinformation, and even intentional misinformation. For that reason, Mayo Clinic has created a website dedicated to COVID-19. https://www.mayoclinic.org/coronavirus-covid-19

This website is a trusted source to help you sift through the information and a great place to start. On the COVID website, you'll find information about:
- Vaccine Guidance
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- Mayo Clinic Research
- Further resources

Here on Mayo Clinic Connect, we have up-to-date information from infectious disease experts and you have the opportunity to ask questions. Please follow:
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- Post-COVID Recovery expert blog https://connect.mayoclinic.org/blog/post-covid-recovery/

I commend each of you who are exercising due diligence, researching trusted sources, and making informed decisions. That said, we may not all arrive at the same decision. The freedom of personal choice is every person's right. With COVID, you also have to consider your surroundings, fellow citizens, and make decisions that are right for your situation.